Amazon UK have been in the news lately for tax reasons, and while I’ll agree they should be chipping their fair share in, it is not the reason I’m mad at them.
It’s the fact that they’ve violated a UK and EU law, and don’t seem to care at all. Allow me to start from the beginning.
On the 15th August, I purchased a Samsung Series 9 laptop from Amazon. I sent it back, because it was damaged, but I got my replacement a week later and was happy with it.
Now, one thing annoying me, was that it came with Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit. Something I did not want or need, as you’ll see in my review here. When buying it, I was not too bothered. I knew my rights as a consumer entitled me to a refund of the underlying operating system.
I contacted Amazon UK via their online chat and received no joy. They told me that I could send back the entire unit for a full refund. Thinking I was perhaps speaking to someone who was not aware of the laws, I recited them. These are follows:
- EU directive 2005/29/CE
- UK’s Consumer Protection of Unfair Regulations Act 2008
No such luck. So I called Amazon and spoke to a chap on the phone, who did not seem to understand the laws either. He said that Amazon did not have to follow EU law as I knew it came with Windows when I purchased it. I pointed out briefly, that his argument was flawed, and that I only purchased the item with the impression that I could in fact get a refund. I also mentioned that Amazon have issued refunds in the past, and so I thought there would be no exception.
This guy was not having any of it. I offered to send him the license key sticker, prove it had never been activated, and send back the Windows recovery CD. He stated that he suggest I return the entire unit. He told me to buy a device without Windows installed, such as “an Android tablet”. I told him that an Android tablet was not suitable for my needs, and in fact, I needed a high-spec laptop. I was told by this rep to deal with it, put simply, he told me I was aware of it having Windows when I bought it. I told him that these very laws existed because consumer choice is important: if I am not able to purchase hardware of a certain calibre without purchasing unneccessary software, then this was illegal and the very reason this law exists. After a little bit of persuasion, he refused to put me on to a supervisor but promised me he would get one to call me back in 30 minutes.
30 minutes passed, and I got no call. I called back and was told ‘there is no supervisor available’, but that I’d get called back in 2 hours. 2 hours later, nada.
So, I took to email and had no joy. Take two, pushing stronger, with the threat of legal action:
Hello,
I am writing to you yet again as I have experienced no luck in previous emails, which were ignored, Amazon’s online chat which did not yield a desirable outcome, and by telephone, in which a supervisor was meant to call me back, but never did. I purchased a Samsung Series 9 NP900X3C which ships with Windows 7 Home Premium. I do not wish to use Windows 7 Home Premium and am entitled to a full refund
Unfortunately, all of your staff thus far are convinced I must return the entire device for a refund. However, I am fully satisfied with the unit itself, and EU directive 2005/29/CE and the UK’s Consumer Protection of Unfair Regulations Act 2008 say that I am entitled to a partial refund of just the Windows license.
That is, I am entitled to return just the Windows license.
Unfortunately, it seems you staff are convinced that these EU and UK laws do not apply, and that I should return the whole unit. The problem is the laws specifically allow a partial refund, as the act of returning a laptop would be anticompetitive.
It would mean I cannot purchase a laptop of this specification without Windows. Claiming that, I got what I ordered is not valid in this instance. I was reminded that when I purchased the laptop I was made aware it came with Windows. True. However, I was also aware that when I purchased the laptop these laws were in existence and applicable. These laws are just as valid as laws such as the Sale of Goods Act. I knew for example, that if I purchased my product and it arrived damaged, I would be entitled to a replacement or refund. I did not have to state such a law on replacements Ive had from any other company. Telling me to purchase a laptop with another OS is not an option I am afraid. I want this laptop as I could not find a laptop with no OS or Linux with an equivalent specification. I must inform you now that if you do not refund me this money, I will issue a chargeback on the card for the price of an OEM Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit license on my card. If this is unsuccessful I will pursue the matter through the courts, contact my local MEP and publicise your failure to comply with EU and UK laws. I will set up a website, with full transcripts of calls, emails and chats outlining Amazons failure to resolve my issue.
What I find highly interesting is Amazon UK have been known to issue refunds under these laws in the past. These refunds have been partial, i.e. the laptop has been retained by the owner, and just the Windows license refunded. Your recent reluctance to do so seems to me a new line of policy instilled by seniors who seem to believe that Amazon EU SARL is out of jurisdiction of EU directives and UK bound laws.
Both retailers Dell and eBuyer have issued refunds for Windows licenses before. Perhaps I will stick with companies that deal with computers as their mainstream business in the future.
Please do not expect future business from me again. I should not have to be fighting for a refund when the law states that I am entitled to one. How Amazon perceives itself to be above these laws, is, quite simply, beyond me.
Sam Nazarko
Amazon, engage in some bad tactics here already. Firstly, all their replies omit your original message, which I assume they use to cover themselves. You can’t actually get a recorded record of what you sent, as messages must be sent through their website
This actually, got me a response though
Hello,
Greetings from Amazon.co.uk.
We would like to advise that your query regarding return the Windows key for a partial refund from the is still being investigated.
Please accept our apologies for the delay in responding to your e-mail message.
Please be assured that all of us here are working very hard to provide a thorough, personal reply to each of our customers as quickly as possible.
Please be assured that we shall contact you shortly with further information on September 12, 2012.
Promised a reply by the 12th, I instead got this on the 14th:
Greetings from Amazon.co.uk.
We would like to advise that your query regarding return the Windows key for a partial refund from the is still being investigated.
We have already contacted the relevant department regarding the issue, unfortunately still we have not received any reply from the concern department.
Please accept our apologies for the delay in responding to your e-mail message.
Please be assured that all of us here are working very hard to provide a thorough, personal reply to each of our customers as quickly as possible.
Please be assured that we shall contact you with an update on September 21, 2012.
Noticing a pattern here?
Now, this is where I wait a long, long time. They promised me a response by the 21st. I got a response only to tell me to wait longer (20th September)
Dear Mr. Nazarko,
My name is Darryl Atchison and I represent Executive Customer Relations within Amazon.co.uk.
I can confirm we have received your email dated September 9th and are already investigating the comments that you have mentioned in your email.
I will aim to provide you an update on the points you have raised within 1-2 business days.
Thank you for your patience whilst I investigate the matter concerned.
Kindest regards,
I was quite optimistic here, I’d actually managed to reach someone with some sense. But it had been a good two weeks. And I’d still not had any joy.
Amazon now started to push me around and just keep me waiting and waiting. Even when I threatened to issue a chargeback I was told “any day now”. I think they actually wanted to see if I’d do anything.
And I finally got a reply around one month later (I do not have the email at hand), with a generic “return it completely for a full refund”, which obviously was not what I wanted. There was no acknowledgement of whether the laws applied, or explanation rather, as to why they would not. Instead, they simply stated I had to return it. If I had more time on my hands, I really would have pursued this. Instead, I’ll just avoid them.
And there we have it. I’ll never buy anything significant from Amazon again, as I know they don’t honour consumer laws. Furthermore, I’ve managed to deter 3 friends from buying new computer components there (easily cost Amazon about £3k), and I’ll keep spreading the word about how bad they really are. I still think Amazon won. They know people are busy, and so, they try and tire them out by delaying and delaying until they concede. That’s what they did here. It’s pretty stupid though. The £50 they saved, will easily be lost over business I would have conducted with them had they been more accomodating.
I’ve been very busy, but time to write to Trading Standards.